Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

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Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by graymac on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:51 pm

The first part of this new work, the only known Welsh route for OpenBVE, is now available to download from the celtictrainsim.com site
CTS
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by Stephen Cross on Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:55 pm

Hi Gray,

Downloading it now, but work will delay me getting a chance to go for a run for some 11 hrs or so. Seeing your screenshots it looks like it will quite a treat, so the wait will be worthwhile.

Bye for now,

Stephen.
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by graymac on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:49 pm

so the wait will be worthwhile.
I dearly hope so, Stephen, especially after having 11 hours to wonder about it Wink
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by James on Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:41 pm

Hi Gray

Thank you for building this route - it's superb.

A few of my favourite things about it:

The reading of the first signal by use of an OFF indicator, with the signal out of sight, is a nice touch.

The departure from Newport is a masterpiece. The sharp curves on high viaducts between tightly packed buildings create a great effect, and the four-track bridge over the river with signal gantries is superbly done.

The double-arch tunnel is beautiful.

The continuous S curves, one way then the other for mile after mile, are very typical of the area, and give a very realistic feel.

I love the high level bridge over the cutting after Cwmbran.

The closed station and platform before Abergavenny - just another of those touches of detail which add interest and a sense of realism.

Abergavenny approach and station - my favourite part of the route. Everything about it is beautifully made. In particular, the lower quadrant semaphores, including a series of splitting junction signals, are superb.

Some constructive criticisms and suggestions for improvements:

The gradient is mostly level. This seems odd as the constant curves suggest a railway forged through some challenging terrain. Some more gradients would add interest to the driving.

The signal at the platform end at Newport protects a junction with a differential speed restriction (15mph if taking the route diverging to the left), so should have a route or junction indicator so that the Driver knows which route the train is taking.

The car marker boards at the stations are positioned (I think) for 20 metre stock (e.g. class 150s). A lot of the stock used (e.g. 158 and the default 168) is 23 metre stock. If you stop at some of the car marker boards, the rear of the train is off the platform. All the marker boards could do with being moved forwards a few metres.

The AWS magnets are too far from the signals. They are over 300m from the signal. The UK standard is 183m (less if space does not permit the full distance, but never normally more).


I hope this is useful. Thank you again for a fantastic route. Can't wait for Part 2!


James


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CWM TWYPSN PART 1, CASNEWYDD TO Y FENNI (OPENBVE)

Post by jckhinks on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:42 pm

hi graymac. just driven this route and it is great.jckhinks
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by JimH on Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:36 pm

Excellent piece of work Gray. I have just driven the first diagram. Very impressed with the realism and the authentic looking back drop making it even more so. Thanks.
Jim

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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by graymac on Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:55 pm

@ james
The gradient is mostly level. This seems odd as the constant curves suggest a railway forged through some challenging terrain. Some more gradients would add interest to the driving.
The ruling gradient was (I think) about one in eighty. The curves are close to the actual prototype, with plotting being done using a combination of satellite maps and impressions gauged from watching a drivers cab video. The second part will be a fictional branch, where I can dictate gradients on the basis of the " 'Cos I sez so!" doctrine!


The signal at the platform end at Newport protects a junction with a differential speed restriction (15mph if taking the route diverging to the left), so should have a route or junction indicator so that the Driver knows which route the train is taking.
The feather says which way. Anything more complex than that I wouldn't understand Very Happy

The car marker boards at the stations are positioned (I think) for 20 metre stock (e.g. class 150s). A lot of the stock used (e.g. 158 and the default 168) is 23 metre stock. If you stop at some of the car marker boards, the rear of the train is off the platform. All the marker boards could do with being moved forwards a few metres.

The routes will have the trainstop adjacent to the appropriate car stop sign, dependent on the specified train. If that's a three car, then 3 is the marker, irrespective of distance from 3 to any other marker.

The AWS magnets are too far from the signals. They are over 300m from the signal. The UK standard is 183m (less if space does not permit the full distance, but never normally more).
True enough, from the book:
The track equipment consists of an AWS magnet that is normally
provided 183 metres (200 yards) on the approach to a signal.
The AWS magnet may be positioned at a greater distance from the
signal on high-speed lines or at a lesser distance from the signal
on lower speed and platform lines.

Where I've used the greatest distance between the magnet and the signal is where the sighting isn't very good. Saving a lot of brown-trouser moments Very Happy
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by James on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:57 pm

Hi Gray

Thanks for the responses. I think I didn't make my point on the car markers very clearly. If I stop at (say) the 2 car marker with a 2 car train, then go to external view, I find that the rear of the train isn't on the platform.

Interesting instruction on the AWS magnet. I've never actually come across a real life example more than 183m away. I'm not sure 80mph counts as a high speed line. Maybe in Wales.... Wink

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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by graymac on Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:20 pm

There's possibly an issue with markers when an different train to the specified one is used. I'm assuming you mean Y Fenni station specifically, where the markers might benefit from a forward shift of a few metres.

Curiously, on the AWS magnet question, there was no comment on that matter from one of our community who is a retired driver, who has driven on that line and has tried the route pre-release. I'm still inclined to leave it as is because of the sighting which doesn't allow sufficient advance warning to stop before the signal at line speed.
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by James on Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:08 pm

Thanks Gray. The default stock appears to be a Class 168, which has 23m vehicles (nothing in the UK is longer). It does, however, have doors at the "one third / two third" positions rather than the ends of vehicles. I wonder whether the car markers have been placed to get the rear passenger door on platform? The rear cab door needs to be on the platform too, because the guard can operate the doors from there.

I'll have a play and let you know which stations have car markers which would benefit from adjustment.

It's not a big issue though - I know of at least one real life example where if you stop at the 3 car board with a 3 car train the rear of the train isn't on the platform. It is just part of the Drivers' route knowledge that they must stop a few metres past the board!

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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by graymac on Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:49 pm

Exactly, and learning the route will allow a perfect score to be obtainable, except in the the diagram with the PW works and TSRs where it's impossible to arrive on time!
Car markers may need adjusting according to train type. At present there is no obvious correct train type which I could specify.
The default train, a 168, really came about purely and simply because it was what I used myself when making the route. I don't build UK stock - better train makers than me do, so look out for suitable Arriva livery stock to use. I'm confident that Stevegr at bve4trains intends to produce a 175 at some point. As and when that happens it will be perfect for this route, as indeed are the passing trains in it, which Steve produced.
The real Abergavenny today is an interesting station in that the building and services is very close to the start of the up line platform. The up line platform is quite long, yet the down line platform which was once a island platform, is remarkably short.
I recommend the Video125 "Welsh Marches Line" DVD to all who would be interested, preview here:
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

Post by Stevegr on Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:55 pm

So what actually are the trains on the real route.
Recently Class 158, 150, 175, Class 67 Mk3 coaches and DVT and Class 57 'Top and Tail' with Mk2 coaches.
Even the odd Class 143 can appear when Cardiff Canton depot has to replace the booked unit at short notice!
Grey's default train the Class 168 would not actually normally use the route.
At the moment the 175 is indeed a WIP, slowed slightly development wise making some new route objects for some route or other!
I plan to make the loco hauled trains at some point, it's thanks to not having the photo's to make the coach underframes that slows that happening.
Also a lot of Railtours run along the route, often using the WCRC loco's and stock.


Last edited by Stevegr on Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:10 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : 170 to 168, did I make that one? and missed another 170... sorry I am not that good at numbers or spellling)
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Re: Cwm Twypsn Part 1, Casnewydd to Y Fenni (OpenBVE)

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