One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

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One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by kwijiboenator on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:28 pm

Took a GC 180 from Halifax to London KX the other week - not been on that route before and was amazed it took 2 hours to get to Doncaster.

Anyway, no power in Coach C which we'd been booked into, it was a little more noisier than usual, and not as smooth either. Wish I could recall the TOPS for it. Apparently it had been running like that for a few days according to the staff on the train, and another passenger I got talking to on the way home after my original service got cancelled and everybody was talking about various recent journeys.

When we got off me and my girlfriend felt a little dizzy.

It's been the first time I've been at Kings Cross since the refurbishment, and it's looking amazing!

Anyway, took the Northern to London Bridge, and was gutted that Southeastern thinks it's acceptable to charge £18 to go from Bridge to where she lives in Kent - it was a distance of around 30 miles? Mind you - it's getting that way on Northern or any local service where you walk up and pay now as well - £5 from Shipley to Leeds - until that's knocked down to £3.20 I'm driving into Leeds. It's just daft asking that much from the public.

Although on my return I did book from my GF's to Keighley and it was a LOT cheaper booking advance - but booking advanced isn't always an option, and I think it's just sheer greed the way pricing is going now. The times are tough, and any business which charges too much is simply not going to exist any more - that's why Jessops and Comet have gone.

If you think that sounds daft, going back to the Southeastern service, for circa 7pm, it was quiet - everybody was sitting down and there were a lot of empty seats. If they'd have charged less, it might have been a little more busier + profitable?
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by mrknowitall on Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:40 pm

kwijiboenator wrote: it's getting that way on Northern or any local service where you walk up and pay now as well - £5 from Shipley to Leeds - until that's knocked down to £3.20 I'm driving into Leeds. It's just daft asking that much from the public.

That's not the worst bit for us along the Airedale line! how about Shipley to Skipton! I went recently to meet my mate who works for south yorkshire police, and for me plus another i paid something along the lines of £13! but for me to get to Wakefield from Shipley its £5 return! or £9 any time return, i can now see why them kids are always going back on fourth in the mornings to avoid the conductor Very Happy
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by kwijiboenator on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:23 am

I know! It's just getting out of hand now. It really doesn't need to be THAT expensive because people will always need to travel. But trains aren't the only means.
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by johnsinden on Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:03 pm

Guys, you should watch this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=86oqnk--X_A

Clearly there are some skeletons in the 3901 cupboard....................!
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by graymac on Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:06 pm

Complicated bit of kit!!
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by Quork on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:44 am

Oh it seems like a quite easy-to-handle vehicle to me. I don't know, of course, how it behaves in reality, and without first-hand-experience one can't tell much about a railway vehicle, but all this looks not bad at all, although I'm no Alstom fan really.
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by rick1984 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:45 am

your German (I think!). you like nothing more than long methodical procedures. you'd probably sit there happily twiddling knobs and go nowhere!

(the tongue is completely in cheek before you think i'm being rude!) Wink

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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by kwijiboenator on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:37 am

Heh! I saw that video months ago - I think it was linked to the YouTube user 'CrapBRVids' which adds some amusing commentary to old BR training videos - another gem you should look out for! Laughing

Whilst my returned Journey from Kent to Yorkshire was cheaper - lesson to be learned - book as early as possible and ALL the way through - don't book the intercity bits, otherwise you'll be turning up with your space suit for astronomical pricing.

And whilst the IC225 has a good ride, I was somewhat bemused as to why - due to the failure of an earlier set - they cancelled the train to Leeds just as everybody was getting on at KX, and turned it into a York service, when a Newcastle service calling at York was following it directly?

I stayed on the York Train as on the day in question - Jan 14th - it was snowing, and decided to change at Donny. There we were gliding through Hitchen when we get another announcement that due to a broken window in Coach C we were reduced to 110mph. Didn't really notice the difference or that we'd even slowed down the ride was that smooth.

Of course we arrived at Doncaster about 30mins late - meaning I might as well have waited another 30mins at KX for the following Leeds service. Whilst at Doncaster, an XC service came through heading to Newcastle.

Whilst I don't expect mere mortals in KX to imagine an XC service would have been passing through Doncaster at the convenient moment - so they could have kept the Leeds train running, and had the York PAX change to the XC service - not that there were many - that plus the other Newcastle Train from KX made me feel that the contingency planning has a lot of holes in it at the moment.

Or to put it this way - the train crews need the BEST info, because on the railways they can't simply be 'mere mortals' - and the signallers/control at KX perhaps should have studied the time tables better?
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by Quork on Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:24 am

I've shown the video at work. They all considered it hilarious and informative and the vehicle itself was deemed to seem nice and relatively comfortable to handle. However, everyone reacted allergically to the great amount of conditional sentences.
"Reset system <xyz>. It should go out..."
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by James on Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:38 pm

The 180 is generally considered to be a decent unit when it works. Unfortunately that isn't very often. You get the picture from the numerous "should" comments, and explanations of what to do when things go wrong.

They started at First Great Western and struggled to get over 5000 miles per casualty (truly dreadful) until Great Western eventually gave up and they ended up with open access operators. I believe Hull Trains have managed, with numerous modifications, to drag them up to about 15,000 mpc, which still isn't great. I'm not sure where GC are with theirs, but I bet they're getting better figures out of their 35 year old HSTs.

Great Western now have some 180s back again, to have another go!



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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by Quork on Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:11 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "5000miles per casualty"? What form of casualty?
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by LabRatAndy on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:11 pm

I think he means breakdown.

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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by Quork on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:22 pm

Ah 'key
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by James on Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:36 pm

A 'casualty' is defined as any unit fault which causes a delay to a train over a certain threshold (5 minutes if I remember correctly).

The most reliable trains in the UK (generally Electric Multiple Units) achieve over 50,000 miles mpc. If you're running low cost DMUs such as the class 14x series you do well to get near 10,000 miles mpc out of them.

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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by hurricanemk1c on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:09 pm

Well, having found this year's Golden Spanner Awards, here are the Class 180 fleets. Measurements are - MTIN (Miles per Techincal Incident Number) and DPI (Primary Delay Per Incident - not including knock-on effects). MAA is the Moving Annual Average

Hull Trains: 35.3 DPI, 18395 MTIN 2012-2013, 13568 MTIN MAA

Grand Central: 28.7 DPI, 7690 MTIN 2012-2013, 8028 MTIN MAA

FGW: 11.7 DPI, 3438 MTIN 2012-2013, 2036 MTIN MAA

That puts them at roughly mid-way in the modern DMU category. Of course, they are actually in the InterCity category. The FGW sets were introduced half-way through the period, whereas Hull Trains have 4 sets, and 5 GC sets. FGW have the remaining 5 sets
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by James on Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:17 pm

Interesting. Good to see they are finally getting there! There are some pretty major variations between fleets. I know a lot of the units (including those belonging to Hull Trains) have significant modifications, but I'm not sure whether they're all the same now or not.

Where are the Golden Spanner Awards figures please hurricane? I was looking for them but couldn't find them.

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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by hurricanemk1c on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:22 am

They are in the January 2013 Modern Railways - conplete set of figures for all the fleets
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Re: One of the GC 180's needs an overhaul

Post by James on Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:10 pm

Ah, thanks.

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