Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

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Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:49 pm

Hellooooo Smile

I am a noob to OpenBVE although I have had some experience with train sims before this one in particular troubles me!

I am finding it very difficult to master routes as there seems to be no system telling me when and where signals and stations are located and at what speed I should be travelling. scratch I know of the little fan thing (sorry, dont know what its called) that changes colour or whatever but have know idea how it works. Of course there are speed signs but even so my breaks slam on and warning sounds are triggered before I can even get near to another station. Guessing this is because of the dead man's switch maybe? I'm familiar with turning AWS of to learn the route. But I don't want to have to do this.

So my question is: is there a menu in game that tells you this information? Or is it just a case of learning the line? (which sucks!)

Btw, I am currently running the NWM2011 line in a Cl 350 or the Cl 221 Cross Country. (I've tried both).

Thank you all very much. Awesome forum btw Smile

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by graymac on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:42 pm

Get ready to do plenty of sucking! You do need to learn the line if you are to avoid overspeeding and possible emergency brake apps.
There are diagrams/maps on the NWM site which list PSRs and line speed info.
You have most likely exceeded speeds for given signal aspects, to be pulled up when not expecting it.
It may be annoying but its realistic, which is what this sim is about.
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:15 pm

graymac wrote:Get ready to do plenty of sucking! You do need to learn the line if you are to avoid overspeeding and possible emergency brake apps.
There are diagrams/maps on the NWM site which list PSRs and line speed info.
You have most likely exceeded speeds for given signal aspects, to be pulled up when not expecting it.
It may be annoying but its realistic, which is what this sim is about.

Well that certainly sucks lol! I will check out NWM site and see what I find. I guess I will also learn more doing it the hard way. Thanks graymac for your response : )
And about dead man switch. Does this apply in BVE?
Thanks

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by hurricanemk1c on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:29 pm

That's on what's called a Plug-In. Most things with TPWS (the box with three buttons on - a yellow square, a yellow circle and a red circle) will include a DMP (Dead Man's Pedal) with the equipment. Cancel via Delete (refer to the documents if you're unsure)
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:40 pm

hurricanemk1c wrote:That's on what's called a Plug-In. Most things with TPWS (the box with three buttons on - a yellow square, a yellow circle and a red circle) will include a DMP (Dead Man's Pedal) with the equipment. Cancel via Delete (refer to the documents if you're unsure)

Thanks man! Much appreciated : ) Just have to ask though, can I press delete before set of to disable this perminently or can it only be disabled after the incident itself?
Thanks

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by johnsinden on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:41 pm

@RDMDJ - I can only echo the comments made to you by Graymac. OpenBve is as realistic as it gets, and any Emergency Brake applications will happen as a result of a serious mistake by you, the Driver. So, yes, there is a lot to learn, and I think it's fair to say that most of us are still learning.....! But you get hours of fun at it, but it is VITALLY important to spend some time reading up on the theory. And if you do inadvertently go through a SPAD (I still do, after 18 months), well, you can re-wind back to Maybank and start all over again, without losing your job.............! And your tea is in the oven....!

Have Fun, you've joined a great Forum, and we'll always be prepared to help you out, but don't expect any sympathy for Self-Inflicted-Wounds...!

Cheers,

John
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:57 pm

johnsinden wrote:@RDMDJ - OpenBve is as realistic as it gets, and any Emergency Brake applications will happen as a result of a serious mistake by you, the Driver. So, yes, there is a lot to learn, and I think it's fair to say that most of us are still learning.....!

Ha ha thanks John. I guess I just realised BVE is anything but a game. I have experiences in MS Flight Sim and can fly at an experienced level. I thought I'd have it easy with a train sim but I guessed wrong lol. I'm quite chuffed though that this sim is as realistic as other sims and for free too! I shall have fun learning : )
Thank you

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by Quork on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:31 pm

Yepp, you got it right, it's no game! Smile And yes, it's learning, learning, learning. Each route is different (and if you "go abroad", it's even more, as every country is different, unlike street traffic which is quite similar in most countries), each vehicle is different, and always it's much railway rule knowledge needed.

@John - I must say I'm surprised you do have SPADs, I was under the impression you are a train driver in RL as well?
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by graymac on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:41 pm

It's alright, Quork. John never 'signed' the route!!!
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by Quork on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:54 pm

Very Happy Well yeah, I did miss the very different railway philosophy on your isles before. I must say I'm rather happy with the one here in Germany. When I get "expect stop", I expect it to come in 1000m (branch lines 700m, special cases 400m (some branch lines and the railway hub Cologne with very low speed limits)) and not in e.g. 5km...
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by Dexter on Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:56 pm

Quork wrote:When I get "expect stop", I expect it to come in 1000m (branch lines 700m, special cases 400m (some branch lines and the railway hub Cologne with very low speed limits)) and not in e.g. 5km...
Is it also dependent on the maximum speed of the current section in Germany? That's how we have it here in Czech rep...
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by Quork on Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:44 pm

Nope. Well, in a sense yes: 700m are only on branch lines, so Vmax<100km/h. As to 400m, I know them from Cologne only, and there the highest speed is 60km/h.

On the other hand, each timetable has its minimum brake percentage and is calculated so that a train having exactly the minimum brake percentage will always come to a stop within the route's brakeway (that's the above-mentioned distances) with EB, so in slopes the maximum speed in the timetable can be lower than the line's speed limit; the same is done if the distance between a distant and a main signal is more than 5% less than the route's brakeway, in this case the limit applies only if the distant signal is showing an "expect stop" aspect.

Let's say e.g. we have a distant signal and 900m behind the corresponding main signal, and all of this in a downward slope with a line speed of 160km/h. An intercity train will have a minimum brake percentage of e.g. 193, will be allowed to go 160km/h on the slope but only e.g. 155km/h at the distant signal's site if it is at "expect stop", while a regional train with a minimum brake percentage of e.g. 121 will be allowed to go e.g. 140km/h on the slope and e.g. 130km/h at the distant signal's site if it is at "expect stop". That's why in Germany you always need your timetable, even if you know the route by heart and drive on it for 30 years.
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by johnsinden on Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:26 pm

@John - I must say I'm surprised you do have SPADs, I was under the impression you are a train driver in RL as well?

Ahhhh, dear Quork, never believe what you read in the newspapers.......! That shot of me was taken by my good Driver pal Kenny at the controls of a GNER Class 91 at Edinburgh Waverley. He then treated me to a Cab Ride (love the German expression "Fuehrerstandmitfahrt") to Newcastle, and, no, much to my disappointment, he didn't let me drive it. Some people just have NO sense of adventure.................!

Cheers,

John
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by Quork on Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:50 pm

Uh okay, sorry Smile

But speaking of avatars, this isn't me (or rather: This isn't my arm) in my avatar, obviously, as I took the photo Smile
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by hurricanemk1c on Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:52 pm

RDMDJ wrote:
hurricanemk1c wrote:That's on what's called a Plug-In. Most things with TPWS (the box with three buttons on - a yellow square, a yellow circle and a red circle) will include a DMP (Dead Man's Pedal) with the equipment. Cancel via Delete (refer to the documents if you're unsure)

Thanks man! Much appreciated : ) Just have to ask though, can I press delete before set of to disable this perminently or can it only be disabled after the incident itself?
Thanks

TPWS can be disabled by Page Down, but that also isolates the AWS 'sunflower' system. Page Up (Train Stop Override) is useful if you know you're going to have slowed down to a stop by the signal, ut using a higher braking curve than suggested by the TPWS system. After the incident itself (red flashing light), I think you have to wait a minute for the system to re-adjust, then hit either Page Up or Down - seems to work.

It's all fun and games!!
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:15 pm

hurricanemk1c wrote:
RDMDJ wrote:
hurricanemk1c wrote:That's on what's called a Plug-In. Most things with TPWS (the box with three buttons on - a yellow square, a yellow circle and a red circle) will include a DMP (Dead Man's Pedal) with the equipment. Cancel via Delete (refer to the documents if you're unsure)

Thanks man! Much appreciated : ) Just have to ask though, can I press delete before set of to disable this perminently or can it only be disabled after the incident itself?
Thanks

TPWS can be disabled by Page Down, but that also isolates the AWS 'sunflower' system. Page Up (Train Stop Override) is useful if you know you're going to have slowed down to a stop by the signal, ut using a higher braking curve than suggested by the TPWS system. After the incident itself (red flashing light), I think you have to wait a minute for the system to re-adjust, then hit either Page Up or Down - seems to work.

It's all fun and games!!


Thanks mate : ) I've been reading up on the AWS 'sunflower' system and think I understand a little now. When I reach an AWS inductor I get a ping and the 'sunflower' turns black meaning clear but any other colour (the yellows and red) not clear and an alarm sounds. That's about as far as I've got at the moment.

I was wondering though if yourself or anyone else could tell me what each colour represents and what action to take when these colours appear. Would be much appreciated. I've searched the web but all I get is a heap of laborious articles to complicated for the likes of me lol.
Cheers

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by johnsinden on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:26 pm

Have a look at this a few times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oWajIpubfk
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:55 pm

johnsinden wrote:Have a look at this a few times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oWajIpubfk

Good vid.

So according to the train behind, red is a definite no go, orange - train not too far ahead, double orange - train a good distance away and green - clear. I think that's right. But what actions to be taken with each colour. For example with a single orange, is this telling the driver to stop or slow down? And if slow down then to what speed?

Its all so confusing!

Thanks

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by hurricanemk1c on Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:27 pm

Basics - Red - NO GO, unless there is reason why (signal failure, advised by signaller)
Single Yellow - Prepare to stop at the next signal
Double Yellow - Start slowing down, with the intention to meet the single yellow at the next signal, followed by a red
Green - Go!

So, that's -Green-Double Yellow-Yellow-Red
Go -Slow down -Prepare to stop -Stop

A flashing yellow means that you are going to diverge off the main line. Line speed to be followed with reasonable decceleration to the diverging line speed.

It's all based on the block system, as follows
http://www.railway-technical.com/Colour4aspview.gif (more comprehensive is http://www.railway-technical.com/sig-uktypes.shtml giving both semaphore and colour light signalling)
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by graymac on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:43 pm

Everyone thinks driving a train is dead easy, cos you don't even have to steer it!!!
And they are wrong, as you are finding out. Very Happy
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by Adelante107 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:57 pm

I've been driving the West Midlands route for a few years and I could safely say I "sign" it so to speak! I can drive locals and express trains along the Salford loop, Ludgate Branch and the Blackbrook branch but it's taken allot of hours driving to do it! I'd say, do the high speed runs from Maybank to Hammerwich first and learn all the speed limits, signal placement and stations. If you do it in blocks, say learn Maybank to Riverside then Riverside to Radley Junction then Radley Junction to Hammerwich and not move on to the next block until you learn the one before it Smile. Then do the same with the branch's and the loop untill you know the whole thing Very Happy! But remember (it's important!), not all the signals are the same distance apart... some signal blocks are much much larger than others. Finally, all trains drive differently so take into mind you will have to vary your braking distances depending on what traction you are driving!

Hope this helps and we'll have a pint when you sign the route cheers Laughing
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by johnsinden on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:27 pm

Mine's Belhaven Best.......!
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:28 pm

Adelante107 wrote:I've been driving the West Midlands route for a few years and I could safely say I "sign" it so to speak! I can drive locals and express trains along the Salford loop, Ludgate Branch and the Blackbrook branch but it's taken allot of hours driving to do it! I'd say, do the high speed runs from Maybank to Hammerwich first and learn all the speed limits, signal placement and stations. If you do it in blocks, say learn Maybank to Riverside then Riverside to Radley Junction then Radley Junction to Hammerwich and not move on to the next block until you learn the one before it Smile. Then do the same with the branch's and the loop untill you know the whole thing Very Happy! But remember (it's important!), not all the signals are the same distance apart... some signal blocks are much much larger than others. Finally, all trains drive differently so take into mind you will have to vary your braking distances depending on what traction you are driving!

Hope this helps and we'll have a pint when you sign the route cheers Laughing

Ha ha sounds good... you buying lol? Much appreciated for this post. I've been learning the West Midlands route for a while now. Yes, it definitely takes a while to revise. And I've got some lines cracked but have to be honest, the shorter ones. Also I have to use the 'Isolate AWS, TPWS, and vigilance device' in order to get buy. My train seems to stop almost every time with it off???????? Maybe I'm just doing something wrong! Actually do you think this may be because of speed limits? Maybe I speed up before the last car passes the speed sign... does this effect the train in any way? Sometimes I misjudge the length of my train lol.

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by RDMDJ on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:30 pm

johnsinden wrote:Mine's Belhaven Best.......!

Mines a Carling! So disgusting yet refreshing somehow Very Happy

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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

Post by Adelante107 on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:16 pm

RDMDJ wrote:
Ha ha sounds good... you buying lol? Much appreciated for this post. I've been learning the West Midlands route for a while now. Yes, it definitely takes a while to revise. And I've got some lines cracked but have to be honest, the shorter ones. Also I have to use the 'Isolate AWS, TPWS, and vigilance device' in order to get buy. My train seems to stop almost every time with it off???????? Maybe I'm just doing something wrong! Actually do you think this may be because of speed limits? Maybe I speed up before the last car passes the speed sign... does this effect the train in any way? Sometimes I misjudge the length of my train lol.
If you have isolated the aws/tpws then the only thing that would stop your train is overspeading on the approach of a lower speed limit after the advanced warning boards! Make sure you are starting to brake as you pass the yellow and white speed boards and down to the speed it indicates before the normal red and white speed boards
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Re: Routes and relevant documentation (Network West Midlands)

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