High Speed 2 Development

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High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:38 pm

At the moment the route is more or less a strait length of track, with some platforms marking out where the stations are, some markers, (using the .marker command) to denote where to slow down and speed up for the ATS once it's up and running, and some curves and dips.

So obviously at this stage, there's a long way to go - and I've yet to start adding new photographic objects yet - all of the objects are the objects which were used to put together Dennis Lance's tutorial. Once I've taken some photographs - and there is something that you've never seen before in terms of BVE textures, I'll post some screenshots.

The timetable though for this first phase of the route is as follows:


-- HIGH SPEED 2: North East Regional Express, (All Stations) --

London St Pancras Platform H: d12:08

[Maximum section speed: 170mph]

Luton Airport HS2: a12:24, d12:16

[Maximum section speed: 250mph]

Northampton High Speed: a12:39, d12:41

[Maximum section speed: 250mph]

Leicester High Speed Station: a12:51

-- END OF ROUTE...for now! --


To the South of Leicester will be a triangle junction which takes trains from London to Birmingham, and trains from Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield, Leeds and cities further along the North East HS2 route to Birmingham - to act as a high speed cross country route.

Northern Line from the Open BVE forums is currently assisting me, and working on St.Pancras - if you're interested in helping in any way in putting together this route, please send me a PM.


Last edited by kwijiboenator on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by mrknowitall on Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:43 pm

what trains are needed? Very Happy
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:05 am

I've considered waiting until we're further along developing the route, but I've considered this too - and it will essentially be a case of developing completely new trains.

Essentially, they would need to take in the following considerations:

- Shinkansen/TGV/AGV style acceleration/deceleration curves
- Until the plug-in is developed for TVM as used on HS1, the ATS signaling system will be used; but AWS/TPWS should be included
- Top speed of 300mph - Standard Ops speed will be 250mph
- 14 coaches in Length
- European gauging to potentially allow double decker trains if required
- Articulated bogies to lessen the likeness that in a crash the train will topple
- Cab aerodynamics to take sound noise and wake noise reduction into account
- Zones instead of classes - Business, Academic, Traveller, Family & Non-reserved.
- A brand name restaurant in one of the coaches towards one end, a buffet towards the other end of the train.


There may be other things to take into account as well that I've not considered here - but I'm thinking that there could be two types of train which match the above criteria - one for the regional stopping services, the other for Super Express services, (London SP, Sheff, Leeds - for example) with the latter, there would likely be fewer coaches than the stopping services - probably 9 or so?

I've also toyed with the idea of having Javelin trains running from St.Pancras to Luton Airport - regardless of wether a 395 is put together or not, I'll add in a timetable for this, and potentially if we can source the object, we'll have 395's as passing trains on this part of the route.

I've also considered running international Eurostar services from Paris to Birmingham, but as that fork in the track isn't going to be developed until after the main project is concluded, then that will be a wee while off.
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by mrknowitall on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:17 am

maybe digging yourself whole there, may have to get mr B on the .plug in's. because i dont know from the top of my head any actual plug in creators here! Although there could always be a DD pendo style from alstom built? we could easily give the pendo a good refurb Smile

just out of interest, how high is a double decker style train? is it the same height as standard with people more or less sitting on the rails on the first floor? or is it higher?

and articulated :O on openbve? doesn't work Very Happy
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:42 am

That's why it's likely we're going to stick with ATS for the time being - as it's used on Japanese Shinkansen routes.

And an 'uber-pendolino' probably won't cut it for noise at 250mph.

For double-decker research, try looking at either the TGV duplex, or E2 and E4 Series Shinkansen trains.

I thought you managed to put together articulated bogies for your APT externals?
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by mrknowitall on Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:05 am

seen as its uk based, are the trains actually going to be TVG's and so on ? and all said and donne people cme to the silly conclusion they didnt work, maths begs to differ Very Happy
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by pedned on Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:01 pm

For plug-ins... There are only 3 people really worth contacting, that I know of, from the top of my head (sorry if i've forgotted any, it wasn't intentional).
But they are:

SimonG from TSC (who I believe has left the BVE community)...

LabRatAndy from Oovee (Not sure if he's still involved in BVE, as Oovee now see to be mainly focused on Railworks).

and BVEWorldWide's resident moderator... wait for it...
Mr Anthony Bowden!

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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:09 pm

The only one I didn't know of was LabRatAndy.

But I'm thinking of just sticking with ATC - who knows, perhaps ATC will end up being used on the actual HS2? Either way though, whichever system is used, it's likely as a mag-lev system isn't being build, (well, that and the HUGE financial implications for going the mag-lev route) is that the HS2 trains could run on conventional UK lines as well - so both plug-ins should be taken into account.


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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by mrknowitall on Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:25 pm

back to the trains, i have a few ideas for objects as such, but for the running trains, any idea's?
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:48 pm

Well, I'm inclined to draw inspiration from the Japanese's Duck-billed trains - bear in mind we have a LOT of similarities to Japan - we're both tea drinking, island nations with dense populations, and mountains in the middle.

The problems we're going to come across - some of which have already been addressed in the various public consultations - in the construction of HS2 are very similar to those which the Japanese Shinkansen have managed to find solutions to since they started planning and building the first initial Shinkansen lines towards the end of World War 2.

So essentially what HS2 is going to be up against is:

- Sound levels
- The pitching of track to tunnel under/run above obstacles
- Crash worthiness; whilst the Shin. has a GOOD safety record, the French use articulated wheels, and when TGV's have derailed, they ALWAYS stay upright, and never too far from the track.
- Energy intake and useage

Perhaps we could innovate whilst we put together the BVE version of HS2? Perhaps we could use some sort of dynamo to collect power, which is then put back into the national grid? Bear in mind the 390 already puts energy back into the network each time it breaks.

In BVE terms of course, all we really need to consider is how the trains would more or less handle and look.

The good news is that we could take elements from literally anywhere for the cab - but I'd advise anybody producing a HS2 train to come up with something that is practical, yet not seen before.

Perhaps an LED screen for the dials and signaling? Find electronic devices in and around your home, photograph them, and then photoshop them to look like actual elements.

I'd say that you should consider sticking with one style though - just to give it that sense of realism. Try not to have HUGE differences between the elements of a cab.

Also, when I put the announcements onto the route, they're going to be following the carriage 'Zone' structure - there is no first class, because there is no standard class - and by that I denote that people tend to travel for a certain number of reasons, and this is why I think that HS2 should cater for that. Whilst I've already outlined the zone structure earlier in the thread, I'm still considering the branding and colours for the zoning, so that passengers will know which part of the train they'll need to head for.

But don't worry about that yet - this is something that can be altered at any time.
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by joeyfjj on Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:54 pm

kwijiboenator wrote:That's why it's likely we're going to stick with ATS for the time being - as it's used on Japanese Shinkansen routes.

And an 'uber-pendolino' probably won't cut it for noise at 250mph.

For double-decker research, try looking at either the TGV duplex, or E2 and E4 Series Shinkansen trains.

I thought you managed to put together articulated bogies for your APT externals?

I thought the used ATC?

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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:25 pm

Whoopsie I of course mean ATC!
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:05 am

Heh - I just read in this week's RH that Chiltern are changing some of it's clubman units' 'First Class' to 'Business Zone' - it would be interesting if that an idea I posted on here is making a difference to the real railways?

If that is the case - then perhaps my idea for zoning on HS2 isn't too farfetched?
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kieranharvey on Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:20 am

So when do we get to see some screen shots ? Razz

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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:25 pm

I'm not 100% certain yet; I'm going to wait until I've got the signs on the platforms, and I've finished putting together the track bed.

There's nothing amazing about it at this stage, because I'm still plotting the parts of the route closest to the stations, where it's more likely there are going to be curves - the rest of the route will be more or less strait, with some tunnels, and incline/declines.

Northern Line from the Open BVE forums has been working on St.Pancras, but I'd love to get somebody onboard to put together the tunnels, as that's an area I'm struggling with at the moment - that and the walls which run along side the track, on parts of the route which will run along an elevated guide way.

If anybody is interested in helping out, please send me a pm!
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by wheeltapper on Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:10 pm

The two-track tunnel walls in the Ballyfeckin route are indexed as .dike objects to save putting in freeobjs every 25m. If they are suitable for your route you could use them as they are, or modify them if needed (not sure what height you need for OHLE) as graymac allows that to happen Wink

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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:16 pm

I'll check that all out!

Here's a screen shot of the first object which will appear in the finished route - everything else you can see in this preview is from Dennis Lance's tutorial at this stage!



I've low layed out the route - it just needs to now run under the cities, to be accompanied by the semi-underground stations, yet to be designed - but I have some good rough ideas for these, based upon TGV stations - such as the one at Lille, near the French/Brussels border.
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by Dexter on Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:52 am

A large platform, isn't it? Very Happy Based on that, I expect some heavy operation on that route!
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:39 pm

Like I said - there's a lot to do with it at this point! I've yet to add the escalators - up for the underground stations - down to the subways for stations which are above ground - for partially above ground stations, such as Leicester and possibly Northampton, it could go either way - as I doubt we'll be wanting a foot crossing with non-stopping trains passing through the station at between 140-160mph!

The idea however, is that most of the station platforms will be islands, on two loop tracks around them - on both the UP and DOWN platforms, with the mainline running through the middle of the stations for trains which aren't stopping there.


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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by SnowHill150001 on Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:50 am

This is a great idea Kwijiboenator! Looking forward to driving this. Good work!

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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:48 pm

Once it's got more scenery, it will look amazing.
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:32 pm

After further studying Leicester, I've decided that the HS2 station, will consist of a platform built where the current goods yard is at the current station.

HS2 goes underground as it approaches Leicester, then rises up - then, around 160 metres South of the station - the tunnel pops out from the embankment, and then follows the current MML on the right side, around a corner, under a bridge, and into the station.

I imagine that there would be pillars at the end of the tunnel, before the exit mouth, and turn into the station.

I'm going to need objects for Leicester Station, so if anybody is able to help me with objects for Leicester station, that would be handy. If not, then I'll simply stick a screen up - but it would be nice to come to a standstill, with an EMT Meridian or the like, standing at the adjacent platform.

To be honest, it would be nice if anybody living close to/travels to Leicester on a more regular basis than yours truly would able to code the entire structure. Send me a PM if you're interested.

I also need people to help construct the generic embankments and tunnels - so if this is your field - then again, please send me a PM expressing your interest.

Luton Airport and Northampton are going to be stations built entirely to my own specifications, so I'm not as worried about these stations - but if anybody has any objects, or photographs for objects, they will be put to good use!
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kwijiboenator on Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:42 pm

I've spent the last few days making a number of alterations - tunnels have now been added - although at this stage the caverns around Luton Airport and Northampton Stations aren't particularly realistic; so my next step will be to sort out the mouth to the tunnel walls.

I also still need to add the loop from the mainline, leading to the two tracks around all of the platforms, (both up and down) at LA and Northampton - all trains are either going to passing through at around 75mph, or stopping at Leicester, as the station is going to be situated where the actual goods yard/stabling yard is in reality.

So after the tunnel mouths, I'm turning my attention to the walls and pantograph system. Next I'll be installing the ATC, and from there onwards, it's all going to be about the objects - platform furniture, buildings and trees.

I'm happy with how far this has come along, even though there's still around 4/5 months worth of work to complete yet, if I keep working to the current pace.
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by mrknowitall on Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:01 pm

I may have a few rolling stock to go for the route, but until I can confirm a good cab theirs no Point. It's looking great Smile
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Re: High Speed 2 Development

Post by kieranharvey on Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:52 pm

is someone created a eurostar ? i might take up train building lol it hard tho any guides and stuff?

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