WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

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WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by Quork on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:44 am

Setting up the workbench...



...and that although I'm a vegetarian Laughing
Also called "tunnel tampon" by envious commuter collegues...
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by Quork on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:48 am

Notice to future generations... When setting up such a work bench, there never is too much time spent in rectifying its textures. Their accuracy is your models accuracy later on.

Another tip; in OpenBVE the vertical axis is low at the bottom and high at the top, just like in real life (or in cartesian coordinates), while in graphics the opposite direction is established, having 0,0 at the top left corner. So have your workbench's textures mirrored upside-down, eases reading highness values directly from the image dramatically. Scale the texture up to 1px per cm. (Scaling down won't happen, a photo that well resolved is likely to have been taken from a distance not high enough, making everything distorted perspectively, so keep a mile 'gainst the wind from those)

And yet one more; when modelling curves, create a sensible raster. That is, have an "x" axis where you move linearily, in incremental steps, and an "y" axis where you read the value off; chose the x-axis so that your y values are small. Just like in here, where I switch between directions where sensible:


The red lines mark the incremental steps on the "x" axis in the first raster which I use for the rather vertical part of the windscreen's edge, the yellow ones the raster for the rather horizontal part.
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by Quork on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:47 am


And this way, the windscreen is ready. Faces never contain more than 4 vertices, otherwise everything gets messy, and people say it isn't good for graphic efficiency either. As the two parts are built of roughly 25 and 30 vertices, it isn't hard to get lost in the process; it is a good idea to put the coordinates into Calc or Excel and making a diagram, where you see which vertex goes where, thus seeing how to create the faces.

Just thinking loud as this makes my own learning curve available to others, being in my eyes a valuable resource for newbies. At least I learn well from watching others do their work. If you're disturbed by this step-by-step process description - don't read it Wink
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by graymac on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:17 am

Looking somewhat "wurst" for wear right now! No doubt you will arrive in the end Very Happy
Faces never contain more than 4 vertices, otherwise everything gets messy, and people say it isn't good for graphic efficiency either.

I have tried faces with more than four vertices and as long as they are all in the same plane it works fine. Otherwise the results can be unpredictible. I do like to group as many faces as possible in a single mesh. For composites such as car sides, where it is almost impossible to get a good high detail "square-on" photo, I assemble components in layers over a less detailed monocchrome image made for the purpose. This keeps the proportions right for me. It also puzzles bystanders when I'm taking photos of "bits of trains". Just a few of the right shots and the rest is done in armchair comfort with Photoshop!
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by Quork on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:10 pm

Yeah, that's right, however the problem with this vehicle is, there is no such thing as a plane *g*

I'm rather following a multi-part-approach I adopted back in my LS3D-times, as it allows for modular interchange between vehicles. Both have their advantages and disadvantages for sure.
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by mrknowitall on Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Quork wrote:Faces never contain more than 4 vertices, otherwise everything gets messy, and people say it isn't good for graphic efficiency either.

Not one face on my 350 exterior is 4 vertices, normally around 8 to 16 faces, then just one 2048 x 512 image, rather that than 8 4x4 vertices each with there own image, and i did some tests a while back to see the difference with a whole train using just one image, that also was a success and framerates just went up. So the quoted line is infact false, check mine and Adam's new site and look at the 180 front face, where hitting over 100 vertices and still rising, but yet runs just the same as the old Frame rate wise.
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by graymac on Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:44 pm

Not one face on my 350 exterior is 4 vertices, normally around 8 to 16 faces,
Don't you mean "mesh"??
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by mrknowitall on Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:25 pm

Shut up :p
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by Quork on Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:49 pm

Notice to the future; always think twice (better; ten times) before you start your vehicle building carreer with a very complicated mesh. And anything concave or convex is complicated. Thoroughly. I needed several attempts at the windscreen before I got a version I'm happy with. And that only by finding a way to drop one of the curvature dimensions without it being obvious. The two parts of the windscreen are now sliced in thin (10cm wide) long squares along the length axis. Before I experimented with trapezoids, with triangles around one central point, with triangles around three and around five points, hoping to make the two parts curved not only around the length axis but also slightly (as they really are) around the transverse axis. But always there is some perspective from which the mesh looks not the way it is supposed to, creating sort of chasms and ridges.

Currently I'm fighting with the data collected from the images for the side window ribbon of the nose part. They're not well-resolved (1px per 1cm), thus creating steps. It would seem easy to interpolate the data - well it isn't. Never've been aware how strange the shape of those windows is Very Happy I already had a solution for the upper edge seeming to work; but it creates an angle between the curved, problematic part and the flat, clear part, where in real they are joined tangentially.

In short; never engage in meshes whose geometry you don't mathematically understand. Especially if you're the kind of person who doesn't drop a project once begun...


Last edited by Quork on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : asymptotic and tangential are two different things... Obviously too much of this for today.)
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by graymac on Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:55 pm

Or, to paraphrase the designers most holy mantra:


KISS


(Keep It Simple, Stupid!) Very Happy
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by Quork on Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:00 pm

Yeah, I think I'll have to mail this to SIEMENS Laughing
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by mrknowitall on Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:14 pm

I always found maling the mesh was simple, Alan Wheeler taught me a method where i can use certain vertices 2 or 3 times so the end result is more "squares" less corners Smile the settexturecoordinates are the tricky bits Smile your second to last post seems to say your stuck, if thats the case what you stuck on? Id be happy to help :)and screenshots would be a good idea for us to see your progress Smile
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Re: WIP: A veal sausage with ketchup

Post by Quork on Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:34 pm

There's not much to see as the windscreen looks the same from some distance, but here you go:



And here's the current problem:


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