Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Page 3 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Drag0nflamez on Mon May 14, 2012 5:15 pm

Since I don't like reading 13 pages, let me sum up what I consider to be an 'open' BVE. I only think it's really open, when the development process is transparent. I don't know how Michelle, Odakyufan etc managed to do all of that themselves. I think the best way forward would be community development; using github/sourceforge for instance.

Drag0nflamez

Posts : 203
Join date : 2012-05-11
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Mon May 14, 2012 5:25 pm

Sorry Dragon, but I think, even if it's hard work, it'd be better to read up the whole thread. Otherwise we will cope with the same suggestions and arguments every second day.

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Mon May 14, 2012 5:33 pm

Then I'd suggest locking the thread so long, it's always easier to work with static material. Only my two pence though, don't want to ingerate your work, you're doing a great job! The best mod is one you hardly notice, and that's true for both of you!

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Dexter on Mon May 14, 2012 7:50 pm

The topic has been reviewed and edited to provide more transparency. Both parts (past and future) are now unlocked.

Dexter

Posts : 1780
Join date : 2011-07-08
Age : 31
Location : Brno, Czech republic

http://www.brnobve.eu

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Dj Hammers on Tue May 15, 2012 12:34 am

It is always important to clear up misconceptions, and there appears to be a big one regarding the goals of several people who wish to continue development on OpenBVE.

There is a general consensus that forking OpenBVE is NOT a good idea due to the fact that such an action would further divide the community.

Instead, it is hoped that odakyufan will open up development of OpenBVE to the rest of the community, as there are several people who came out of the woodwork recently from the OpenBVE community and other open-source projects who wish to help and provide their knowledge and expertise.
This is what we hope to accomplish, a true, community-oriented team that can continue where Michelle left off; the true concept of an open-source project, not a 1 or 2 person-oriented project in the public domain.

Right now, we are just waiting for odakyufan to decide what the fate of OpenBVE is; whether or not to continue development, and if he is to continue development, whether there will be involvement of a larger and more diverse development team or not.

Dj Hammers

Posts : 80
Join date : 2012-05-08
Age : 20
Location : United States

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Dj Hammers on Sun May 20, 2012 3:56 am

OpenBVE.org is being updated every single day, and has a growing, dedicated team people working on it.

Just minutes ago, a new, streamlined download page was implemented, which now includes an auto-installer for OpenBVE on the Mac.
LINK

Dj Hammers

Posts : 80
Join date : 2012-05-08
Age : 20
Location : United States

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by mrknowitall on Sun May 20, 2012 11:31 am

can you put the link to my site please?

mrknowitall

Posts : 711
Join date : 2011-07-09
Age : 24

http://www.bve-terminus.org/pioneertrains/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by joeyfjj on Sun May 20, 2012 6:30 pm

Who's running openBVE.org?

joeyfjj

Posts : 262
Join date : 2011-07-30
Location : Singapore

http://openbve.joeyfoo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Sun May 20, 2012 6:41 pm

The "developer log" lists someone called Max Diamond. Seems someone shoot forwards and resorted to exactly what everyone warned not to do; blind actionism. I hope we still wait for Odakyufan to make a decision.

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by joeyfjj on Sun May 20, 2012 6:50 pm

Quork wrote:The "developer log" lists someone called Max Diamond. Seems someone shoot forwards and resorted to exactly what everyone warned not to do; blind actionism. I hope we still wait for Odakyufan to make a decision.
Personally, I'd consider that as a fork already. It needs to have its name changed, even I thought odakyufan and Anthony is involved!

joeyfjj

Posts : 262
Join date : 2011-07-30
Location : Singapore

http://openbve.joeyfoo.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Dj Hammers on Sun May 20, 2012 7:13 pm

This is a misunderstanding, that post is a post by the SITE developer, NOT any possible developer for OpenBVE or a fork, etc.

However, it is important to note that there is NO blind actionism occurring. Several people have patiently waited for odakyufan to get back to us with his decision, and as of today, he did. Should development by odakyufan stop (which is possible after the maintenance release is done), there are several developers with many years of experience ready to continue where previous development left off.
For the very last time, I want to emphasize that OpenBVE.org does not believe in creating a fork, but rather in continuing (or assisting with, should odakyufan continue development himself) further development.

As the saying goes.... "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Dj Hammers

Posts : 80
Join date : 2012-05-08
Age : 20
Location : United States

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Sun May 20, 2012 8:27 pm

Thank you for clarifying. With things being this way, it seems I was taken in by a misunderstanding and thus beg your pardon.

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by liquid_ on Mon May 21, 2012 11:33 am

I don't know about any decision made concerning further development but let me ask a question about the future of language used for trains and routes definition. Wouldn't it be valuable to utilize XML for that purpose? It's obvious that parsing procedures of OpenBVE should be changed but maybe it would be worth of struggle for the sake of definition clarity. Many available XML tools could be used then by the developers in much easier way to build new stuff. After all, XML appears to be the most common data definition language.

liquid_

Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Mon May 21, 2012 2:10 pm

OpenBVE would still need to keep the csv-parsing active for all pre-xml content and the devs would need to learn coding from ground zero again, and both for no gain. So I suppose most devs would not use their precious time for learning the whole stuff all over again for nothing. Rather then tinkering with the current format, we should think about that new format even Michelle planned; with multiple useable tracks, direction change etc. That's work for months; surely more than rewriting the current system to XML. But that's something giving so many possibilities, probably enough gain for the devs to consider the work worth it.

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Drag0nflamez on Mon May 21, 2012 8:21 pm

A syntax like this, keeping learning easy, but still allows for enhancement
Code:

<railway>
 <route>
  // route info here
 </route>
 <track>
  <rail location="0">
  <curve radius="200" cant="40" />
  <limit>32</limit>
  </rail>
 </track>
</railway>

Drag0nflamez

Posts : 203
Join date : 2012-05-11
Location : The Netherlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Mon May 21, 2012 8:37 pm

Yeah but, what for? We should take XML into consideration for the new route format, but I wouldn't do the work of rewriting the current format into XML. No gain, much pain.

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by lonelyinardwick on Mon May 21, 2012 8:43 pm

Quork wrote:No gain, much pain.
I disagree. No pain, no gain. If openBVE can read both B3D and CSV objects, as well as CSV and RW routes, I can't see a reason why we shouldn't write for further support for XMLs or just simply txt formats. I think what is more important is that we should actually put into the routes, like any new functions that you dream of. Categorise them, here.

The syntax method doesn't look bad at all, at the very least, it would potentially reduce a lot of restrictions and the effort of calculations. But then when defining a particular spot in a route, would the syntax fit in to that?

Also, what Mackoy done is to use CSVs (turned .txt) as "maps" instead of "routes", hence the ability to change tracks, and not define by the player's track. I mean.. I could challenge myself to translate everything Mackoy wrote in his Japanese developing guide but it takes too much time.

lonelyinardwick

Posts : 375
Join date : 2011-07-24

https://about.me/lonelyinardwick

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by liquid_ on Mon May 21, 2012 10:14 pm

You are maybe right when you think of old and experienced developers. However you may agree that there is not much pain to use XML for new ones.
Possibly, we should consider XML as provided language as well, shouldn't we?
It is obvious that any data structure (in OpenBVE too) can be described by XML. This is by definition.
Let's discuss a little and let's propose something useful, could we?

liquid_

Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Mon May 21, 2012 10:22 pm

Well, you might want to check on LokSim3D's file structure. They're all XML based and there it is possible to change tracks; you have the track file where all tracks and switches are defined, you have the route track where the switch positions are defined and a timetable file where the times are defined.

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by liquid_ on Tue May 22, 2012 8:15 am

Is there available somewhere a complete syntax of OpenBVE language for routes, trains and object definitions?

liquid_

Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-05-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by lonelyinardwick on Tue May 22, 2012 11:09 am

liquid_ wrote:Is there available somewhere a complete syntax of OpenBVE language for routes, trains and object definitions?
It's in the same download page as the main program, listed under documentation. http://odakyufan.zxq.net/

lonelyinardwick

Posts : 375
Join date : 2011-07-24

https://about.me/lonelyinardwick

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Bucket_of_mud on Tue May 22, 2012 8:01 pm

Let me ask one question here. Not being a developer myself, but I have reviewed the syntax briefly. It is quite alot of stuff to deal with and seeing some addons here - Graymac, Derryck, Chris Lees, Tony Haylor, Steve Green etc. All this work requires brilliant knowledge of syntax, just consider that most of these guys need to know all the route building, object building AND the cab creation process.
Now, a few people (about which I haven't heard as of authors - might be my fault, but I have really tried hard to find somethig) are discussing how to make life of these authors more complicated by creating a totally new way of coding. Shouldn't it be more the developers, who should share their experience? What to improve, what to leave the same?
I remeber the was a suggestion corner on official openBVE forums, unfortunately, many great ideas were scratched just because of giving priority to the new (and not really ideal) sound system, the (in current state) useless managed content thingy etc. Do you really want this to happen again?
The openBVE development was sometimes way too fast. A friend of mine (a developer) has once told me that he learns one thing and the next day there are two others. In my opinion, this is NOT the way to go. Why don't you just focus on finishing off some features that would make the sim realistic as hell (day/night dependent on time, sound playback by commands from objects, possibility to control switches etc.) rather than mumbling about rewriting what's been already written? Or better - why don't these wiseheads go and create addons? Once all the features are there, the you can find 50 ways to code them. For now, it would be better to stick to the way that already exists (rather than start from the scratch)

Now hit me.

Bucket_of_mud

Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-05-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Quork on Tue May 22, 2012 8:25 pm

No, I won't hit you, that'd be to easy. I'll ask you a question. How do you want to do automatic day/night and, even harder, working switches with the current syntax? There is no sense in rewriting the current format into XML, you're right at this and as you can see in this thread, many think the same. But there is very much sense in creating a new format; because there are features which cannot be sensibly done in the current format. The concept of creating all landscape with objects, the concept of the one single true rail, they're both outdated; the first one because of the increasing emphasis on exterior view, the latter one because it is impossible to have working switches this way. And for this new format it is sensible to rediscuss everything from ground zero, including the question whether the classic csv or rather the more flexible (especially with multiple tracks) XML structure. But that's a topic which, if addressed immediately, might come to a working stage in maybe a years time.

Quork

Posts : 1031
Join date : 2012-05-05
Age : 25
Location : Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main), Hessen (Hesse), European Union (Deutschland (Germany))

http://www.parkbahnschmiden.de/

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Bucket_of_mud on Tue May 22, 2012 8:31 pm

Quork wrote:But there is very much sense in creating a new format; because there are features which cannot be sensibly done in the current format.

I have a question to that, too. Are you a programmer? Have you gone through the source code and examined it? Because if not, the you should not come up with this thesis. There was a lot of stuff that many people thought was impossible to do and see? We have animations, external views etc. So where and on what basis do you define the border of something being impossible to make?

Bucket_of_mud

Posts : 10
Join date : 2012-05-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Dexter on Tue May 22, 2012 8:34 pm

Guys, I just hope this is not going to start any fights here - keep it simple and decent, please. (not that it has not been conducted this way so far - just a reminder for the future)

Dexter

Posts : 1780
Join date : 2011-07-08
Age : 31
Location : Brno, Czech republic

http://www.brnobve.eu

Back to top Go down

Re: Development discontinued - discussing the direction to go

Post by Sponsored content Today at 10:21 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum