BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Dexter on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:58 am

mrknowitall wrote:Yeah relativly easy to create the code, just the drawback would be the button command as such Smile although i've got it i think with the cab handle Smile

Yep, even the handle (or button or whatever) can be coded using the brake pressure dependency... one would only use rotation for the handle (instead of translation for the brake claws)

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by mrknowitall on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:42 pm

Yep Smile can be a useful but of info there for dev's Smile i can if needed send the coding via pm to you to add to the animated help note i created many months ago Smile it seems to have helped a few devs since it was posted Smile

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:41 pm

On the subject of handy little animation formulae, this is one I cooked up this evening:
Code:
StateFunction = If [powerNotch >0 , If[speed >0 & speed <=8 ,Mod[Value+(Delta*SpeedoMeter*32/(6.2831853*0.950)),32],0] ,0]


So, what this one does is to provide a steam puff from the cylinders below about 4mph or so, so long as we've actually applied a notch of throttle. Basically, it's a case of using the same 32-step animation running the valve gear, but with null objects where we don't want the puff.

I did consider adding in a brake clause, but as far as I'm aware these didn't have any brake interlocking to speak of Smile

On the subject of brakes, you can see in the HD versions that the brake shoes are currently a 2D texture. Undecided as to whether to go full-on 3D with these at the moment, they're an awkward size and shape to build. (The smaller, the harder)

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:36 pm

So yeah, progress has been slow lately, but still Sad
This little screenshot shows several hours work on bufferbeam hardware, bunker steps and lampirons:


Nowhere close to being finished here, despite using 20 cubes, 8 cylinders & a whole lot of custom faces on this bufferbeam/ bunker back.
Still need to redo the vacuum pipe to the correct height in 3D, as well as tinkering with the couplings.
Moving further up the bunker, there's two grab rails (Probably 5 cylinders each), and this is before I've even thought about detailing the rest of the model.

5,781 lines in the main file so far, plus circa another 2,000 in animations (Repeated in 32 different positions!).

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:21 pm

So, it's been rather too long since I posted the last screenshot Shocked
Having said that, huge amounts of work have been done since then, and I'm probably about 90% of the way to having a drivable alpha I'm happy with.


At the moment then, the front bufferbeam needs completing, as I haven't built the vaccum pipes or associated lampbrackets, a little more work needs doing to the front pony truck, and finally, some basic bulkheads need adding into the cab. (At the moment, you can see right down the center of the loco and have a set of wheels visible through the floor!)
While there's no cab view or sounds/ performance at the moment, the complete model is basically animated, including pivoting pony trucks, steam and other bits and bobs.

As far as I'm aware, there's also no more complex model available for OpenBVE Razz
Reccomended specs at the moment are a dual-core PC with at least 1gb of RAM and a dedicated graphics card. I'd also advise cranking AA/ AF to the maximum- Without these, the wheels don't look too clever.

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Quork on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:49 pm

Shocked
Lookin' great!

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Dexter on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:54 pm

Nice, really. May I have a question? Which technique do you use for wheel creation? Cylinders, or vertices counting? I have made an interesting conclusion on Sunday...

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:29 pm

Dexter wrote:
Nice, really. May I have a question? Which technique do you use for wheel creation? Cylinders, or vertices counting? I have made an interesting conclusion on Sunday...

The wheels are cylinders, 16 faces to be precise Smile
I'd guess your interesting conclusion is that actually building them in vertices terms is probably marginally better in performance terms? I found ages ago that building an object completely in 2D faces (Whistle for example) tends to have a very minor hit on framerates, than actually doing that same object in a couple of transparencies. IIRC this is due to the amount of resources it takes to actually do the alpha sorting and actually rendering the transparencies.

Following on from that, I'd logically therefore expect building a simple cube by hand would actually take up less resources than doing it via cube commands. Basically:
Cube Command:
* Load cube command into memory and generate list of vertices relative to 0,0,0
* Create mesh & apply textures
* Apply rotation.
* Translate resulting mesh to final position.
By hand:
* Load list of verticies into memory.
* Create mesh & apply textures.
You're basically cutting out a step or two in the process Smile

I did consider building the wheels by hand (The boiler was done by hand so I could use custom normals), but I made the decision that they're not visible enough to justify the headache building them that way would give me! I hate algebra Twisted Evil

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Dexter on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:54 pm

Surprisingly you're right. Hand coded cylinder is more HW demanding than the CYLINDER command. I tested it myself and the fps difference was significant!

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Quork on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:47 pm

Erm, either your first sentence is missing a "not", or the second is logically inversed, or I'm going slightly mad^^

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by graymac on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:04 pm

or I'm going slightly mad

Please don't go mad. There's no nice, warm lunatic asylums open any more. You would end up "in the care of the community", which means a cardboard box in a doorway, next to the local druggie. Very Happy

Terrific work, Chris. Looks like you will get a result after all the time and effort you've invested. Well done!

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Dexter on Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:28 am

Quork wrote:Erm, either your first sentence is missing a "not", or the second is logically inversed, or I'm going slightly mad^^

It's like I said. If you code the clinder by hand (using truckload of "AddVertex") it IS MORE HW DEMANDING than using (and even texturing) the CYLINDER command. Whatever effect this has on you, you will have to deal with it. Very Happy

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Quork on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:24 pm

In this case, your first sentence is missing a "not", as you're contradicting Chris in the matter.

@Graymac - lol =D

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Dexter on Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:25 pm

Ah yes, you're right. I must have left it at the bus stop...

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Quork on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:19 pm

Sorry, there's days where I stumble much more on logical inaccuracies than normally. Damned AI Laughing

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:39 pm

Dexter wrote:
Quork wrote:Erm, either your first sentence is missing a "not", or the second is logically inversed, or I'm going slightly mad^^

It's like I said. If you code the clinder by hand (using truckload of "AddVertex") it IS MORE HW DEMANDING than using (and even texturing) the CYLINDER command. Whatever effect this has on you, you will have to deal with it. Very Happy

Interesting Smile
Were you applying any translation and rotation to these tests?
I'd also be interested in the graphics card/ CPU combo in use; If you've been testing on a strong GPU and weak CPU or vice versa, this could easily skew the results to one degree or another.

IMHO, it's these operations that should logically be the killer, not the specific method of creation of the cylinder in question. Adding custom normals to the manual cylinder are probably likely to not help matters mind!

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Quork on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:23 pm

Isn't it GPUs have evolved past the triangle-state and "know" more complex 3D-primitives as well? I'm not sure though, I'm no expert by any means. But if it were so, it would explain, why a "native" cylinder (if it is implemented accordingly in the engine of course) would work better than a manually coded one.

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Dexter on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:52 pm

I guess it is much about the the GPU itself - usually the more vertex processors and the better bandwidth for textures -> the better performance. I have tried on an average Core2duo and nVidia GeForce 8500GT. It is about balanced in performance... anyone has a spare Core2Duo E6850 by the way??? Very Happy

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:41 am

So, this is basically the complete model:


The smoke model is only a semi-placeholder at the moment, needs tweaking at the ends, and I've not decided whether implementing moving steam puffs is a bad idea Shocked

Other than that, comments appreciated Smile

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by graymac on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:22 am

Movement looks really good. Not so sure that the sounds are in synchronisation with the action, but that's yet another difficulty to overcome.

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:11 am

A quick text only update for tonight Smile
So, over the past two weeks I've been working hard on fixing the sounds up to a much more releasable quality, instead of the OS_ATS test defaults in the previous videos.
I'm pleased to say that we now have largely prototypical sounds in sync with the motion!

There are still a few little gotchas, but I'm fixing up a placeholder cab and improving some rolling stock models before a beta release now. Gotchas (Non-extensive list):
* Starting steam puff from the cylinders only works in forwards. Unavoidable to prevent a silly-complicated animation formula.
* Three audible transitions in the sounds. Nothing much I can really do here, it's a consequence of keeping them in sync with the motion.
* After stopping at a station, the sounds may a step or two ahead of the motion. Again, this is unavoidable; I've got no way to link a sound to an animation, but they'll always be in sync as both are derived from the base speed Smile
* Performance hasn't really been touched at the minute. I've decreased the brake efficiency considerably, but it's surprisingly hard to find prototypical acceleration and braking figures.

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:08 pm

Once again, I'm missing deadlines of my own making Surprised

I did have hopes of having something (badly beta at least) available for Christmas, but once again my sense of perfection got the better of me.
To that end, I've been doing some *serious* work on the temporary 2D cab that I'm planning to release with, and this is the result:



I have no idea how long it'll take me to build the eventually planned 3D cab, but I suspect it'll take as long as the loco itself- Pipework is a pig.

At the moment though, I've got a working speedo and brake gauges, and the brake handle and the small ejector are in the process of being animated.
I need to add a pressure gauge somewhere, and see about a power handle and a reverser, but the bones of this cab are coming together nicely now.

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:25 pm

So, this video shows the basically complete and animated 2D cab in action:


Basically just a case of completing the load of wagons right now Smile

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by Dexter on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:03 am

Very nice, Chris. I am curious about this project, I have recently upgraded my PC, so I should be able to give that steamer a proper drive when it's done.

Just a note to the side topic of this thread - I now have Core2Duo E6850 + GeForce 8600GT. If you want to monitor the CPU and GPU load, you can do it quite easily. The CPU can be checked through Windows task manager and the GPU can be checked by a small utility downloadable HERE. It is freeware and tells you everything about your graphic card - amount of memory, its bandwidth, number of ROPs, number of processing units, core + memory + shader frequencies... it really gives you complex information.

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

Post by leezer3 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:30 pm

Dexter wrote:
Very nice, Chris. I am curious about this project, I have recently upgraded my PC, so I should be able to give that steamer a proper drive when it's done.

Just a note to the side topic of this thread - I now have Core2Duo E6850 + GeForce 8600GT. If you want to monitor the CPU and GPU load, you can do it quite easily. The CPU can be checked through Windows task manager and the GPU can be checked by a small utility downloadable HERE. It is freeware and tells you everything about your graphic card - amount of memory, its bandwidth, number of ROPs, number of processing units, core + memory + shader frequencies... it really gives you complex information.

The short answer to that is that OpenBVE doesn't even stretch this PC Wink
My specs are as follows:
Core2Quad Q8200
4GB RAM
Radeon 6870 1gb

Off the top of my head from some testing on this machine & my two laptops, I'd be reccomending something along the lines of a *minimum* Core2Duo (or AMD equivilant) with 2gb of RAM and dedicated graphics.
I'll also say that having the AA/AF cranked up to max on this loco is highly desirable, as otherwise the wheel spokes start vanishing.
At the moment, the loco is using ~60mb of memory in OpenBVE.

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Re: BVE Cornwall: Current WIP

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