Finally!

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Finally!

Post by Dexter on Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:26 pm

A new development version of openBVE has arrived today (see here). So, is that a sign of the scene getting moving again?
Happy

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Re: Finally!

Post by lonelyinardwick on Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:32 pm

I don't have anything much to say on the packaging part AFTER twice reading ALL of the articles on ManagedContent because I still haven't fully understood how it is done, though I'm getting the hang of it.

In regards to hosting, it's essential that I do local backups every once in a while. But for the hosting, I don't think self-hosting is the best way for everyone, because developers around the globe from all walks of life, may not necessarily have the financial ability to host their own add-ons in their own sites. If hosting a file online forever means paying for a domain, it would be merely pointless but more importantly unsustainable.

For example, if a developer turned out to be a senior, and then for some reason, had suddenly died from a heart attack, or any developer who finally decided not to host their own website, how would that affect to the add-on? I'm not saying every developer should buy a domain, let alone a free one, but someone somewhere has to host it.

Thus brings me to my next point, I know that free hosts such as Mediafire does not allow direct downloads unless the user has a paid account, such addons having required to be hosted somewhere on the internet. I appreciate the presence of an option to allow the user to manually select a package, let alone it might be a package that has been published AFTER this ManagedContent had taken effect, this, I think, is a "limitation" that needs to be removed so that it DOES allow packages to be hosted on such websites like Mediafire. Perhaps a pop-up window going to the download page, and then the user could help and assist to identify the link



Just one more thing to add, most of us (at least in the western world) know we still have the wonderful BVE Routes Wiki database, after not long ago, it had recovered after it initially crashed and lost all of its data. But others may not have acknowledged the presence of this database, or even OpenDrive or Kiwi6.

What if they had hosted it on a locally-based website within their respective countries, that some may not know it would support hosting a file forever and for free. Whilst access to a package should generally be direct, it may be the case that the game may have to be tweaked in order to compromise and ensure available access to such packages, if a restriction on agent, referrer, geolocation had to be in place. Maybe openBVE may need to act as its own referrer just like BVE Routes Wiki. I don't know.
But in the end, it's got to be compatible for all.

Ps. I wrote this post, and I haven't even downloaded any 1.3 development versions yet. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Finally!

Post by 92220 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:17 am

I can see the first sticking point. Quoting the new rules:

There are some fundamental requirements that you need to fulfill in order to publish your add-on as managed content.

Rights.

In order to ensure that add-ons continue to be available forever, you must (unless you release your add-on into the public domain anyway) grant everyone irrevocable permission to make verbatim copies of your add-ons under no terms or conditions.

Madam is saying that she doesn't care who agrees what elsewhere, in order to qualify as "Managed Software" it has to be done her way.

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Re: Finally!

Post by lonelyinardwick on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:33 am

In order to ensure that add-ons continue to be available forever, you must (unless you release your add-on into the public domain anyway) grant everyone irrevocable permission to make verbatim copies of your add-ons under no terms or conditions.
Just to clear things up, and to hopefully minimise legacy misconceptions, it's just another way of saying the developer must allow others to have the right to download. As in, the developer must ensure the end-user is able to download the add-on free of charge.

For example, you would have seen spam adverts and banners, from time to time, claiming free iPods and iPads and whatever,
but oftenly you have to enter your personal details and then most annoyingly completing unfinishable surveys. We don't want that.

That's what Michelle is trying to say, we just want the add-on and nothing else to stand in our way from the end-user to the addon.
Please don't confuse this with rights regarding remodification, redistribution, copyright. Which I suspect what you're worrying about.

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Re: Finally!

Post by Dexter on Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:04 pm

Well, my host disallows direct acces to the stored files and therefore it is preventing me from participating. But it is an interesting idea.
By the way, I also think that the proposed policy only applies to unlimited downloading.

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Re: Finally!

Post by lonelyinardwick on Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:42 pm

Derryck wrote:Well, my host disallows direct acces to the stored files and therefore it is preventing me from participating.
It's only fair to say, this feature is not yet out of the woods, as I continue to analyse the new feature, and suggest feedbacks.

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Re: Finally!

Post by Dexter on Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:26 pm

Yes, Jeff, but the host won't let anyone from the "outside" to access my files, so I guess I am out from that for now...

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Re: Finally!

Post by lonelyinardwick on Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:55 am

I had a second thought on the licensing: to make verbatim copies under no terms or conditions, this means the author must allow the user to pass on their add-ons by private means and not necessarily by the website. I do, however, understand where Michelle is coming from. If such websites close down, what will happen to the add-ons? Problem is, there are authors out there who want their add-ons be downloaded only from them and their websites. Therefore I am feeling a little skeptical.

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Re: Finally!

Post by Dexter on Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:40 am

There we gonna go, copyright issues once again, I guess. We'll see how it turns out

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Re: Finally!

Post by graymac on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:25 pm

I haven't reached any conclusions yet, not being 100% clear on how this works. From first impression it seems that I'm expected to change my delivery system to serve the files at my expense for the program. As I have gone to considerable trouble to set up a satisfactory user friendly system I am presently reluctant to change that.
If it was a matter of Michelle's organisation having copies of my route and train files to distribute from their own server by their own method, I would not have any difficulty with that.
I also want clarity on the licensing issues. In the documentation I saw no reference to CC licensing, which I have implemented. I'm not going to change that anytime soon, so if CC Licensing is incompatible for OBVE managed content Ballyfeckin will not become OBVE managed content.
I shall need to see how this works before I come to a decision whether I wish to implement it fully. At present I have a top ranking on Google and a very large number of downloads, so being found and recognised isn't a problem for me as it might be for some others, as Michelle points out in the reasons for implementing the managed content system.
The jury is still out.

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Re: Finally!

Post by Misfit on Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:51 pm

As a user rather than a developer I fail to see the purpose of being able to browse and install add-ons from within the game, links to which are well documented on the Bve Routes Wiki Database.

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Re: Finally!

Post by joeyfjj on Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:22 pm

Derryck wrote:
Well, my host disallows direct acces to the stored files and therefore it is preventing me from participating. But it is an interesting idea.
By the way, I also think that the proposed policy only applies to unlimited downloading.
My C751A train's up, and I can tell you that Dropbox works, both for descriptor and downloadable files.

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Re: Finally!

Post by joeyfjj on Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:28 pm

Misfit wrote:As a user rather than a developer I fail to see the purpose of being able to browse and install add-ons from within the game, links to which are well documented on the Bve Routes Wiki Database.
It does makes life easier by allowing installing within a program. No more worrying about incorrect folder structure inside the zipped folder. It's like installing programs like Office via an installation program rather than by copying files directly.

graymac wrote:I also want clarity on the licensing issues. In the documentation I saw no reference to CC licensing, which I have implemented. I'm not going to change that anytime soon, so if CC Licensing is incompatible for OBVE managed content Ballyfeckin will not become OBVE managed content.
All CC license automatically allows verbatim copies to be made available. However, CC's SA and NC might not work, as to share-alike and the need to be non-commercial are conditions, and openBVE's license states "There are no terms and no conditions".I'll try to bring this up at the openBVE forum.

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Re: Finally!

Post by viccylinefan on Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:11 pm

joeyfjj wrote:
Derryck wrote:
Well, my host disallows direct acces to the stored files and therefore it is preventing me from participating. But it is an interesting idea.
By the way, I also think that the proposed policy only applies to unlimited downloading.
My C751A train's up, and I can tell you that Dropbox works, both for descriptor and downloadable files.

Would that C751A be the new version 2? or Version 1.0.0.1?

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Re: Finally!

Post by joeyfjj on Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:41 pm

One.

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Re: Finally!

Post by viccylinefan on Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:03 am

joeyfjj wrote:One.

Ok, wasnt sure, thanks

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Re: Finally!

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