openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by graymac on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:51 pm

Many of the "people" I used in my routes were sourced from retail clothing websites where there are all sorts of images to choose from. Sometimes I will use pics taken in public places. And there are a few famous people who I've dropped in to a few locations, just to amuse anyone who happens to notice them.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:26 pm

Trouble is that I suspect I'm probably serving 10x the number of downloads (or more...) a day of the main program than you are of any of your routes Smile

You can get away with using images off retail websites in a small-scale way but technically speaking you're probably infringing someone somewhere's copyright.....
The main program needs to stay totally clean, especially as getting the Debian package properly updated is on the current list of things to chase up.
(On that subject, it's now possible to build a deb file under Debian/ compatibles using the command make deb in the source folder, although that's a little O/T)

Editing them out of CC0 images isn't something I'd thought of, will have to do some digging and see what I can find.

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Quork on Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:38 pm

If you could give me a grid for how the people need to be aligned on the texture, I could put one together. There's much texture work awaiting me anyway (I started building a promotional RPG using RPG Maker for and with a fantasy literature author several years ago; other things like organising lectures etc. had higher priority pretty soon and so we stopped it; but now we want to continue work), so I can add this to the queue as well. Such a low-res texture is a matter of minutes, so I should even get to it pretty soon.

On a side note, there's yet another work I started and then paused for several years; the search for a simple, yet accurate brake force calculation for OpenBVE. Obviously re-wiring brake physics of OpenBVE isn't anything for RC1; but could you tell me how far down the road you're planning to address the topic? I'd try to adjust my long-term planning to have something for you in the right moment, though I won't make any promises - too many of them were made and proved unfeasible, I'm not good at planning projects =(
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:07 pm

Trains are probably the next 'big' item on the list to be worked upon, along with basic support for BVE5 content.
I've got a BVE5 route parser which works well for converted legacy routes, and acceptably for other stuff, but the trouble is that one thing inevitably rather depends upon a bunch of other stuff, and so I don't really want to give ETAs. (For example, BVE5 routes require object based backgrounds rather than texture based ones)

What exactly are you trying to achieve with the brake force calculations?
The basic underlying physics appear (at least to me) to be reasonably sound, and so it's essentially a case of allowing variations from the norm- e.g. Allowing unbraked cars, different brake pipe propagation rates etc; is this the sort of thing you're thinking of?

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Quork on Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:54 pm

Remember the "Br(e)aking Basics" thread? Basically speaking, it was a search for a brake force function accounting for propagation time/brake control (indirect pneumatic brake vs. indirect electropneumatic brake vs. direct electropneumatic brake), brake characteristic (gray iron brake shoes vs. "K" brake shoes vs. "LL" brake shoes vs. disc brakes), brake valve (graduated-release like Knorr KE, Oerlikon O etc. vs. single release like Knorr K, Matrossow M etc.), brake setting (UIC , P, G), train length and so on. What also needs to be adressed is the correlation between traction power and brake systems, since different trains behave in different ways; e.g. in most modern locomotives you can have tractive force and brake at the same time, while others like GDR-produced German class 143 won't apply tractive force as long as brakes are applied, unless you push the override button (necessary for starting in a positive gradient). In normal European passenger cars with magnetic rail brake it is activated by <2.8bar in the brake pipe (EB) AND speed >50km/h (I'll have to look the precise hysteresis up) while many multiple units have a button to apply them regardless of speed and brake pipe pressure. Engine and pneumatic brake need to be adressed independently as well. Some trains have other additional brake systems; ICE classes 403, 406 and 407 have an eddy current brake, most modern EMU/DMU for suburban/regional usage at least in Germany have an automatic stopping brake kicking in at low speeds (usually around 5km/h), sometimes in any case, sometimes only if you're in a brake setting...
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:16 pm

That's what happens when I attempt to start the 22 Feb pack. Everything here is from the archive (except for the UserData folder, I added it)

EDIT: I copied some files from 1.4.3 and it worked, don't mind it, sorry!
But I noticed another problem, I use a train with both door opening and closing modes set to "semi-automatic", but I still need to push door button to open them when stopped at station correctly.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:15 pm

I can't reproduce the 22nd of February build failing to start on any of my machines.

Need to see the error before I can investigate Smile

I can see the issue with the automatic doors problem, and have fixed it however, so today's build should be now be good.

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:15 pm

leezer3 wrote:I can't reproduce the 22nd of February build failing to start on any of my machines.

Need to see the error before I can investigate Smile

I can see the issue with the automatic doors problem, and have fixed it however, so today's build should be now be good.
Don't mind it, I figured it out already and the build works now  Smile  I just dropped some DLLs from folder where I have 1.4.3
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Glory! koshikii on Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:57 pm

On Feb 24 build, in the plugin, do you link PlayCarSoundDelegate with "private PlayCarSoundDelegate something"? Does your nightly builds build OpenBveApi.dll? Have you actually implemented it? I can't find PlayCarSoundDelegate anywhere! Where Is PlayCarSoundDelegate!!! Mad I need it for platform doors device to release a new version of odakyufanats! (This, and testing, are the only things delaying my release!)
http://i.imgur.com/ubQeWdZ.png
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:49 pm

Antother weird thing I spotted. It's present in ALL the openbve versions.
When train has "electromagneic straight air brake" and you put brakes to 0, brake cylinder pressure never reaches zero and holds at some small value, often to the point that rub sound is still playing (alhough faintly) and brake indicators provided by some plugins, which detect BC pressures, never show that brake is released. You can visualize that by adding DEBUG_BRAKE in "Customize controls" and binding some key(s) to it (Ctrl+B, for example. I use it quite often when adjusting trains btw), you'll always have some pressure left in BC. In BVE5 and probably 4, this doesn't happen and ESAB brakes can be released completely.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:53 pm

Delsin wrote:Antother weird thing I spotted. It's present in ALL the openbve versions.
When train has "electromagneic straight air brake" and you put brakes to 0, brake cylinder pressure never reaches zero and holds at some small value, often to the point that rub sound is still playing (alhough faintly) and brake indicators provided by some plugins, which detect BC pressures, never show that brake is released. You can visualize that by adding DEBUG_BRAKE in "Customize controls" and binding some key(s) to it (Ctrl+B, for example. I use it quite often when adjusting trains btw), you'll always have some pressure left in BC. In BVE5 and probably 4, this doesn't happen and ESAB brakes can be released completely.

Will investigate Smile
Do you have a link to a downloadable train which you can confirm does this?

It's always much easier for me to start digging with something that's known broken for someone else, even if it isn't for me.

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:08 pm

leezer3 wrote:
Delsin wrote:Antother weird thing I spotted. It's present in ALL the openbve versions.
When train has "electromagneic straight air brake" and you put brakes to 0, brake cylinder pressure never reaches zero and holds at some small value, often to the point that rub sound is still playing (alhough faintly) and brake indicators provided by some plugins, which detect BC pressures, never show that brake is released. You can visualize that by adding DEBUG_BRAKE in "Customize controls" and binding some key(s) to it (Ctrl+B, for example. I use it quite often when adjusting trains btw), you'll always have some pressure left in BC. In BVE5 and probably 4, this doesn't happen and ESAB brakes can be released completely.

Will investigate Smile
Do you have a link to a downloadable train which you can confirm does this?

It's always much easier for me to start digging with something that's known broken for someone else, even if it isn't for me.
You can take any train which has straight air brake specified in train.dat (there should be many meters on screen when you enable brake debug in game, the rightmost should say "straight air pipe")
If you still need a particular example, you can look at 115 series from bve.jpn.org, it's old and doesn't even have a rub.wav, but brake test still shows pressure present in BC at B0 position. On some of trains I have there's even more pressure than on this one
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:24 pm

Hmm...

The brake system appears to have a tolerance value of 5000Pa before any given change is processed, and this is used all over the place, and in an ideal world is something I'd like to leave alone.
In practice, this means that a brake cylinder, pipe etc. will never hit quite zero (As per real life) , but rather float somewhere in the 1000Pa to 5000Pa range, with a final figure that's somewhat dependent on the train's release rate and the current FPS.


My actual instinct here would be to do nothing to the tolerance, as the current behavior is correct in the physics sense.
Have you got a train which actually has the rub sound audible, as I'd suspect that the train.dat here is probably completely unrealistic.
Would also like to see a train with the plugin bug, so I can take a look at exactly how it's accessing the data.

Anyone else with any thoughts?

Edit:
The JR115 was actually quite useful in another way, as it highlighted a quite different bug Razz
Rotation damping should not be applied on the first frame, or to train/ cab objects when switching between external and the cabview. This was manifesting itself as a nastily spinning watch for the JR115 when first loading, and has now been fixed Smile

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:08 am

leezer3 wrote:Hmm...

The brake system appears to have a tolerance value of 5000Pa before any given change is processed, and this is used all over the place, and in an ideal world is something I'd like to leave alone.
In practice, this means that a brake cylinder, pipe etc. will never hit quite zero (As per real life) , but rather float somewhere in the 1000Pa to 5000Pa range, with a final figure that's somewhat dependent on the train's release rate and the current FPS.


My actual instinct here would be to do nothing to the tolerance, as the current behavior is correct in the physics sense.
Have you got a train which actually has the rub sound audible, as I'd suspect that the train.dat here is probably completely unrealistic.
Would also like to see a train with the plugin bug, so I can take a look at exactly how it's accessing the data.

Anyone else with any thoughts?

Edit:
The JR115 was actually quite useful in another way, as it highlighted a quite different bug Razz
Rotation damping should not be applied on the first frame, or to train/ cab objects when switching between external and the cabview. This was manifesting itself as a nastily spinning watch for the JR115 when first loading, and has now been fixed Smile
Okay, I see... I remember another train with that bug, R16 (most probably from bvestation.com)
The plugin affected is from JNR trains I convert back from BVE5, so can't really link to it. The indicator is just a lamp on panel which shows up when brake is engaged. I doubt that it's because of plugin incompatibility with 4/open. I can upload here something with it for you to test later, if needed.

Never paid attention to buggy watch  Very Happy but it was pretty weird when on some trains I closed doors and departed from station in cab, and when I switched to interior view the door closing animation was playing for a sec like that.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:57 pm

Delsin wrote:Never paid attention to buggy watch  Very Happy but it was pretty weird when on some trains I closed doors and departed from station in cab, and when I switched to interior view the door closing animation was playing for a sec like that.

This change is unlikely to affect door closing animations, as for the most part, they'll use translate not rotate.

When I remember, I'll take a look at those, but they're unfortunately more problematic to deal with than the rotation damping-
Essentially whenever an animated object is not visible, it's functions are not updated. This is good, as a train exterior generally has all kinds of complex calculations. However, we want the door closing animation to be smooth, which means that it must be stepped, and this is where the problem lies. 

Not sure at the minute whether I can do anything here without harming performance elsewhere.

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Glory! koshikii on Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:07 pm

leezer3 wrote:Not sure at the minute whether I can do anything here without harming performance elsewhere.
Maybe update the train exterior invisibly when the doors are moving? This seems like a cheap option as it only lasts a handful of seconds.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:30 pm

That happened to only 1-2 trains of many with animated exterior I have and quite rarely. Seems like they use some exotic door animation functions. Probably doesn't even worth fixing :p
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:56 pm

Glory! koshikii wrote:On Feb 24 build, in the plugin, do you link PlayCarSoundDelegate with "private PlayCarSoundDelegate something"? Does your nightly builds build OpenBveApi.dll? Have you actually implemented it? I can't find PlayCarSoundDelegate anywhere! Where Is PlayCarSoundDelegate!!! Mad I need it for platform doors device to release a new version of odakyufanats! (This, and testing, are the only things delaying my release!)
http://i.imgur.com/ubQeWdZ.png

OK, please try 1.5.0.10, which I've just pushed as 'stable' (I know, famous last words.....)

In Visual Studio, under project references, you'll need to point openbveapi.dll to that found in the 1.5.0.10 folder.
Note that you'll need to add the following delegates assuming you're using a stock build of OdakyufanATS:

  • PlayCarSound(int index, double volume, double pitch, bool looped, int CarIndex)
  • AddInterfaceMessage(string Message, MessageColor Color, double Time)
  • AddScore(int Score, string Message, MessageColor Color, double Timeout)


You should be able to figure things out for yourself, but if not, let me know and I'll knock up a quick example plugin for you.

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by jorgecerezo on Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:06 pm

leezer3 wrote:Hmm...

The brake system appears to have a tolerance value of 5000Pa before any given change is processed, and this is used all over the place, and in an ideal world is something I'd like to leave alone.
In practice, this means that a brake cylinder, pipe etc. will never hit quite zero (As per real life) , but rather float somewhere in the 1000Pa to 5000Pa range, with a final figure that's somewhat dependent on the train's release rate and the current FPS.


My actual instinct here would be to do nothing to the tolerance, as the current behavior is correct in the physics sense.
Have you got a train which actually has the rub sound audible, as I'd suspect that the train.dat here is probably completely unrealistic.
Would also like to see a train with the plugin bug, so I can take a look at exactly how it's accessing the data.

Anyone else with any thoughts?

Edit:
The JR115 was actually quite useful in another way, as it highlighted a quite different bug Razz
Rotation damping should not be applied on the first frame, or to train/ cab objects when switching between external and the cabview. This was manifesting itself as a nastily spinning watch for the JR115 when first loading, and has now been fixed Smile

Hi,

There are a few BVE2 italian trains that use electromagnetic straight air brake, whose brake cylinder pressure never releases completely and have an audible rub sound.

They can be downloaded here: http://www.trenomania.it/bve/

You can try any of these locomotives: E402A, E402B, E424, E444R, E633, E636, E646 & E656.

The other brake types: Electro-pneumatic air brake and Air brake with partial release, don't have this problem, brake cylinder pressure releases completely. If you change the Brake type in any of the obove mentioned trains, brake cylinder pressure releases completely and you don't hear the rub sound unless you are braking.

Jorge

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:12 pm

OK, can definitely hear that one, and it doesn't do it in BVE2, so I think this can be classified as a bug.

Have changed the behavior of the straight air brake to be consistent with the other two Smile

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:59 pm

Ran into a really nasty thing - some trains have problems with 2d panel (everything is displayed, except panel image itself aka what's described under [This] in panel.cfg) and it happens on only one route - Hanzomon line (long gone from its website, I can upload it here if needed), on others trains work fine.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:14 pm

Please Smile
I'm assuming it's the one which used to live here:
http://shtr-m.net/bve/hanzomon.html
Is what you've got the original BVE2 version (RW iirc) or the later BVE2 / BVE4 version?

If it's the same one I'm thinking of, the author later converted to BVE5?

The train name you're testing with would be helpful too, although it'll probably affect all panel.cfg based trains.

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:22 pm

leezer3 wrote:Please Smile
I'm assuming it's the one which used to live here:
http://shtr-m.net/bve/hanzomon.html
Is what you've got the original BVE2 version (RW iirc) or the later BVE2 / BVE4 version?

If it's the same one I'm thinking of, the author later converted to BVE5?

The train name you're testing with would be helpful too, although it'll probably affect all panel.cfg based trains.
Yes, it's from there  Smile
I got a BVE4 version in ~2013, shortly before it was made unavailiable and was replaced by converted to BVE5. I got this bug with Tokyu 8590 and another random train with panel2.cfg I picked.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by leezer3 on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:41 pm

Hmm, I've found a copy on archive.org, and my panels are there correctly, tried the TRT-08, TKK-8590  and a few British BVE2/ BVE4 based ones.

Can I see a log for the run where the panel fails to load please?

Also, try toggling Camera Restriction (CTRL+R) and moving the camera back a bit in case the panel has been positioned wrongly (It's just an object within the world)- It's unlikely that this is the problem, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head which could be causing this.

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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

Post by Delsin on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:53 pm

leezer3 wrote:Hmm, I've found a copy on archive.org, and my panels are there correctly, tried the TRT-08, TKK-8590  and a few British BVE2/ BVE4 based ones.

Can I see a log for the run where the panel fails to load please?

Also, try toggling Camera Restriction (CTRL+R) and moving the camera back a bit in case the panel has been positioned wrongly (It's just an object within the world)- It's unlikely that this is the problem, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head which could be causing this.
For me everything works except for 8590, although in older openbve versions (1.4.3) everything works well. Also it somehow happens on Hanzomon line only, in any other routes 8590 and other trains affected are displayed correctly. There's no misplaced panel behind, I checked it.

UPDATE: after I tried loading 8590 on another route (Birmingham X-City line) and then started Hanzomon again, panel has loaded correctly. Log file (from when it doesn't show panel correctly) coming in a couple of minutes.
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Re: openBVE 1.5.0 RC1 - BUGS

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