Project Name Etc...

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Re: Project Name Etc...

Post by leezer3 on Mon May 02, 2016 7:51 pm

Only official english post I'm aware of from Mackoy is here:
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=140942&p=1739436#p1739436

(Had to go looking for that..)

Not quite sure exactly his opinion-
BVE stands for Boso View Express (I think the most approximate translation goes something like 'Bad Drivers Express'), and at one stage I think he was considering dropping the connotations of the name himself.

I also vaguely remember something else that may not have been 100% happy with the name, but I can't find that at the minute.

Cheers

Chris Lees

http://www.bvecornwall.co.uk

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Re: Project Name Etc...

Post by Stevegr on Mon May 02, 2016 9:06 pm

This question of what to call anything not done by Michelle is really quite funny.

As ever issues that don't actually exist are bought up on a forum.

Michelle did not call it Open Bve for nothing and she actively tried to get others to take on the development of Open Bve.

Or have you all forgotten?

Maybe because no one did take it actually on at the time. 

Chris is now doing so, what's the problem?

Although a Windows version would be nice!

I know it's another thread, but does the body rotate from the centres of both bogies?

If not it's just the stopping position that's been improved and the bogies will do some rather odd things.

Also the 3 car per car config was tried by myself and one other before a couple of people had a patent on it!

But without the body pivoting on the bogies it did not work.

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Re: Project Name Etc...

Post by MattD6R on Mon May 02, 2016 10:07 pm

The way I see it is all pointless. Work on the program has stopped by the original team with plenty of time for them to change that. So I think it is only right that someone takes the simulator forward. The program is open source and all this talk about who is right is overdone, it is released in the public domain to release/modify etc. as you wish. I don't think that the Openbve name should be changed as it not like that that there are more than 1 version in active development. Maybe adding something on the end of the name to note who the is author or on the download page as a compromise. But taking the Openbve out of the name would be disastrous for the community as at the moment things are just moving along and I don't think we should be making it harder for interest in the program. It is important that work is done on the program because it will get to a point that if the program is not updated it won't work in the future and then interest is lost. And that won't be good for the simulator and nor should we let that happen. Supporting this work as it seems at the moment is only the way to keep Openbve alive. Anyway that the way I see, though only found Openbve a year after the development stopped.

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Re: Project Name Etc...

Post by leezer3 on Mon May 02, 2016 11:11 pm

Stevegr wrote:This question of what to call anything not done by Michelle is really quite funny.

As ever issues that don't actually exist are bought up on a forum.

Michelle did not call it Open Bve for nothing and she actively tried to get others to take on the development of Open Bve.

Or have you all forgotten?

Maybe because no one did take it actually on at the time. 

Chris is now doing so, what's the problem?

Although a Windows version would be nice!

I know it's another thread, but does the body rotate from the centres of both bogies?

If not it's just the stopping position that's been improved and the bogies will do some rather odd things.

Also the 3 car per car config was tried by myself and one other before a couple of people had a patent on it!

But without the body pivoting on the bogies it did not work.

The bogies (should) pivot perfectly on this Smile
See if the attached image make things any clearer- Each car and bogie has it's own set of relative axles, and should pivot around them.

If not there is a running topic on this:
http://bveworldwide.unlimitedboard.com/t1268-proper-bogie-motion#14085

I've also got the Western I've been working on with this type of bogies, which I will release in due course. Let me know if you want to have a fiddle with a working testbed.

Windows:
The current tar.gz version should work perfectly on Windows (My main dev PC is Windows 8!)- All you should need to do is to extract it to a folder of your choice; It's just the only compression format the Travis-CI build server has easily available.
7-zip and Winrar both handle it, haven't checked about any others.

Cheers

Chris Lees

http://www.bvecornwall.co.uk
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Re: Project Name Etc...

Post by Dexter on Thu May 05, 2016 3:30 am

So, I was thinking about the "software name problem" and all we have gone through in the past, and this is what I have come up with.

Firstly, some of the guys have been mentioning the term "forking". But what does "forking" stand for?  The word fork stems from the Latin word furca, meaning a "fork or similarly shaped instrument." "Fork" in the meaning of "to divide in branches, go separate ways" has been used as early as the 14th century. In the software environment, the word evokes the fork system call, which causes a running process to split itself into two (almost) identical copies that (typically) diverge to perform different tasks. In the context of software development, "fork" was used in the sense of creating a revision control "branch" by Eric Allman as early as 1980. In a fork, both parties assume nearly identical code bases, but typically only the larger group, or whoever controls the Web site, will retain the full original name and the associated user community. Tthat said, Michelle, who was using the original name and was gathering the community together on her forums has a) left + b) closed the forums. That leaves the name of the software and its community unattended.

The definition is sorted out, now let's see the practical use: Free and open source software may be legally forked without prior approval of those currently developing, managing, or distributing the software per both Free Software Definition and Open Source Definition. With openBVE, we no longer have original "team" that is currently developing the software, as Michelle has left and the other team members (Anthony B. and Odakyufan) have not been heard of in terms of development in a while and it is generally assumed their development is discontinued. For me, the absence of activity of the original development team basically buries the term "forking" since Chris is not forking anything that is being actively worked on, he is more or less creating the successor of the openBVE, or (if you wish) he has taken over the development himself and enhancing the original software. This, as per definition of the open source software, can also be done without any legal issues.

My personal opinion, based on what is stated above, is that Chris should be allowed to use the name (or brand) openBVE freely, as he clearly has no interest in damaging it and is rather aiming to enhance this brand furthermore. From my point of view, it is solely his choice if he chooses to stick to the name openBVE, or if he chooses to name the software differently. I assume no legal claim can be made against Chris if he sticks to the openBVE name, even if any of the original authors decide to return to the development. I am not a lawyer, though.

I have also read some concerns about users "tripping" over Chris's "official" site instead of the "official official" site when openBVE is put into a search engine. Now that's ridiculous in my book. I think any potential user should always have the possibility to find the most recent version of the simulator to enjoy its full range of attributes, regardless of the "officiality" of the given website. Anyone using brain will be able to determine which is which. Our aim should be to enjoy any positive development of the simulator and be happy that someone has decided to step up and take over the development, not put ridiculous obstacles in that persons way and start discussion over which site is more official, who is allowed to use a name that is not even copyrighted or patented etc.

Go ahead Chris, use the name "openBVE" if you wish, as it clearly implies you are trying to enhance what is already a good piece of work. Also, BVE WorldWide does not have any property claims towards Chris's work if that's anyone's concern. If he decides to name any of his builds after the forum, then it is his deliberate decision and an honor for this forum.


Last edited by Dexter on Thu May 05, 2016 4:04 am; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Yes, I have helped myself ussing external information resources.)

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Re: Project Name Etc...

Post by graymac on Thu May 05, 2016 7:39 pm

I have also read some concerns about users "tripping" over Chris's "official" site instead of the "official official" site when openBVE is put into a search engine. Now that's ridiculous in my book. I think any potential user should always have the possibility to find the most recent version of the simulator to enjoy its full range of attributes, regardless of the "officiality" of the given website.

The "official" or even "official official" site isn't in existence anymore, the link in the program opening box connects to nothing. I left links on my celtictrainsim website to (Michelle's) original OpenBVE site, then later to Odakyufan's own site for months and months, yet neither site resumed operations. I'm linking to joeyfoo.com, openbve-project.net and also serving the original OpenBVE doumentation and files from my site.
There's no point in retaining dead links, or pretending things have not altered. I welcome and endorse Chris Lee's intervention to take the openbve project forward, under any name he cares to use.

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Re: Project Name Etc...

Post by leezer3 on Fri May 06, 2016 1:01 am

Precisely Smile

In a lot of ways, I'd rather not be doing this.

On the other hand, I've sat around waiting for various features to be added for far too long, and sooner or later without *someone* coming forwards to try and get a sense of direction into the project once more, we stand a very good chance of becoming another footnote.

There are many failed simulators in the woods of history:
* Black 5
* Spoorsim
That's just a couple off the top of my head. If openBVE stagnates or implodes with arguments, we risk becoming another one of these footnotes.

I'll make this point again-
We cannot wait indefinitely for Odakyufan, Michelle, or anyone else to provide us with the mythical 'official' version with all the features we've been waiting for.
As a community, we need to do this ourselves. Anyone who can code is welcome to contribute to and improve this project Smile




A list of thanks:


  • Michelle
  • Odakyufan
  • Sladen
  • Anthony B
  • Jakub Vanek
  • Maurizo M. Gavioli
  • buttercookie42
  • Marc Riera
  • The translators....


Cheers

Chris Lees

http://www.bvecornwall.co.uk

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Re: Project Name Etc...

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